The Doll Podcast
All the latest news and views from the world of dolls.
The Doll Podcast
Teddy Bears, from Playthings to Priceless with Danial Agnew and Louisa Maxwell
Welcome to the enchanting world of vintage teddy bear collecting, a fascinating realm where childhood nostalgia meets the art of high-stakes auctions. British teddy expert Daniel Agnew, has worked with Christie's South Kensington, the London Toy Auction, and now with SAS, Special Auction Services in the United Kingdom. Daniel shares his wealth of knowledge and passion for these timeless companions and the factors that contribute to the high market value of certain bears.
Listeners are treated to an inside look at the upcoming December 3, 2024, auction at Special Auction Services. This highly anticipated event promises to be a highlight for vintage bear lovers worldwide, with the potential to break world records. Daniel Agnew shares the excitement of preparing for this auction and the anticipation of connecting collectors with their cherished finds.
Welcome to the Doll Podcast. I'm your host, louisa Maxwell. This is a Doll Podcast with a difference. It's part of our new feature entitled Collectible Conversations, where we talk about great collections, and today we're talking teddy bears with British teddy expert Daniel Agnew, because, after all, if you love dolls, you probably love bears too. So I hope you enjoy this new feature.
Speaker 1:Collecting antique and vintage teddy bears is a hobby rich in history and emotion. Each bear is an intimate portrait of itself and its owner too. Teddies are a comfort to us when we're young, becoming cherished confidants and companions. Often, that bond is never broken and some teddies remain with us for all our lives. And some teddies remain with us for all our lives. Over time, teddy bears have evolved from simple toys for children to cherish friends that hold a special place in the hearts of both children and adults. Antique and vintage bears are sought-after collectibles, and many rare bears have hit the headlines with price tags in the hundreds of thousands. These bears have gone on to become celebrities in their own right. So what makes these bears so valuable? Well, to help us answer that question, my guest is Daniel Agnew, one of the world's leading antique teddy bear specialists, having worked with Christie's South Kensington, the London Toy Auction, and now with SAS Special Auction Services in the United Kingdom. Daniel Agnew, welcome to our special teddy bear podcast.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:It's exciting, it's really exciting and we're recording live from SAS and I see that behind you you have lots of teddy bears all waiting to go under the hammer at some date.
Speaker 2:So all those boxes are full up as well. So that's all a big, huge collection of teddy bears that come from the Isle of man.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness. I mean there's something like well, there's over 12 huge moving boxes of wonderful bears, so we may hear some noises of people moving things around in the auction room.
Speaker 2:Yes, but I think that I'm in. I'm in that warehouse, so you know, I can't actually hear anything because I've got my headphones on, but presumably there might be something going on behind me, but, um, hopefully not to be honest, it makes it more fun and exciting, because this is really where I mean.
Speaker 1:We see the auctions as teddy bear lovers from front of house. But you are not only front of house bringing us the bears, but you're also the backstage expert who has to go through all these provenances, all these various bears, and it's an extraordinary process, isn't it?
Speaker 2:it is, yes, and it's great fun though, but, um, yeah, we, it's not not so glamorous in our warehouse, um and but we have a lot of stock coming in and out all the time, and you know I've been. You know our sales have just exploded over the last few years and I used to have two auctions a year. I've gone up to four auctions a year and now I'm this year I'm having seven, so it's it's really a bit full on at the moment, but, uh, enjoying it. But, um, a lot of people want to come here to sell, so that's exciting so do you think?
Speaker 1:teddy bear auctions worldwide is it becoming more of a phenomenon? Are more people entering the hobby?
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's more people entering. I mean, there's a steady flow of new people, but not en masse. I think the big en masse was in the 90s, but now, sadly, we've got to that stage in the world of dolls and teddy bears where a lot of our collectors are getting older and they're now choosing to sell their collections. So that's more why I'm busy, rather than there being loads more buyers, but they're still a bit. You know particularly teddy bears. They're still a very strong subject for the right thing. You know, the good bears are selling extremely well.
Speaker 1:Well, december 3rd 2024 is going to be a save-the-date event for vintage bear lovers around the world, as some of the most sought-after and precious bears go under the hammer in England. Daniel, you've sold some of the most expensive bears in the world, including the Paul Greenwood collection of bears, which sold for £1 million, and now you're about to auction another collection of precious bears. What makes a teddy bear so valuable?
Speaker 2:Well, not all teddy bears are valuable. I mean, I think I always say it's a very affordable subject. You know, you can buy a really quite an old teddy bear for as little as 10 or 20 pounds. But you can also spend many thousands of pounds on them. But they're generally the very best ones and they don't come along very often. So it's either it's like very rare and made by a very good maker and in very good condition, or it's got some really interesting provenance that excites people. So it's that individually, or it's a combination of the two, that can make them worth tens of thousands of pounds.
Speaker 2:Now it's very unusual to be worth a bear to be worth beyond ten thousand. Mostly expensive bears that I sell are probably between a thousand and eight, ten thousand, something like that in pounds. But every now and then something very special comes along and then it does make 10, 20, 30. I mean, the most expensive pair I've ever sold was a, a black steif, for 91 and a half thousand pounds. Um, and at christie's we we had the world record for a while, which was teddy girl, who belonged to colonel bob henderson, which was,000. The world record is more than that. Now I can't remember the exact amount, but it's well over £100,000. But you know we've got potential here. We've got world record breakers in this collection, so hopefully, you know we might get some good results.
Speaker 1:Vintage bear collectors are known as arctophiles, derived from the Greek arctus bear and philos love. Collections of bears are aptly described as a hug. Isn't that wonderful. Ian Pout of Teddy Bears of Whitney is a noted arctophile. His shop in England, which houses a distinguished collection of antique bears, is a place of pilgrimage for many a collector, including myself. Ian Pout has decided to part with many of his most famous bears in this auction, daniel, it must be a difficult decision for him to make. How did Ian decide what bears to part with?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, if anyone's been to ian's shop in whitney in oxfordshire, it's, it's such a beautiful, fabulous and.
Speaker 2:But the museum is fairly, fairly small. It's like a small room in the back of the shop and a few other cabinets, but it's just the most perfect selection of teddy bears and related items. So the shop is still there and it's still going to be there and it's still full of wonderful teddy bears to buy. But this is his museum and he's he's almost 80 now and he's having a little step back from it all and it's quite a responsibility to have all these wonderful bears. So he's just decided it is time now to find them new homes. I mean, he's already sold some of his bears. I know that his black stife, ophelo, went quite a few years ago and he's also sold his amazing red stife, which was Alfonso, and that's gone to a museum, which is great.
Speaker 2:I've always wanted to have sold that bear. That's one of the bears that was on my sort of tick list of I'd love to sell one day. But we've got no shortage of amazing bears and you know, on my I guess perhaps top of my tick list is one of the bears that is coming up for auction. But he's basically decided to sell everything that's in the museum apart from his own bear that he had as a child. He's hanging onto that. But everything else that you see when you go to Whitney is up for auction and it's all just to get the best price on the day. You know we're going to estimate things, but he just wants it sold. And what's so nice about this subject? He just wants them to go on to their next stage of their life. They go to their next collectors. Maybe some will go to museums, go to collections all over the world, and those bears will be around forever more and continue their journey.
Speaker 1:It's an amazing shop and museum. I mean you go thinking, oh, I'll be there for an hour and three hours later you're still there. There's just so much to see, so much to look at and such a warm and charming group of people who run the shop and the museum. It's an incredible place to visit. Nobody should miss it. Ian Pout such an amazing collector and collection. We've been so lucky to be able to explore the collection of rare bears while he had them at his shop, and the shop is still open and there are many wonderful bears still waiting there to delight. So Ian has decided that the collection must make its way to new homes and the bears have now travelled from their home at Teddy Bears of Whitney in the Cotswolds near Oxford to your warehouse at Special Auction Services in Newbury, berkshire, daniel. This is going to be a rare opportunity for people to meet these beautiful bears.
Speaker 2:Three or four weeks before the auction. We'll pick them up, bring them here and they'll be on view here for a good week and sale week as well. So you know you'll get to see them and most of them you'll probably be able to handle as well.
Speaker 1:So you know you'll get to see them and most of them you'll probably be able to handle as well.
Speaker 2:I think we'll probably restrict handling on a few of them, you know, because people want to see these things. If they're going to spend lots of money, you need to hand them. So I always say coming to an auction is so good, it's like going to a museum where you can actually handle things, and it's a really good way to learn about teddy bears by handling them.
Speaker 1:It's an incredible experience and even if you can't afford you know Happy or one of the other amazing bears that are going to be in this auction there'll probably be something you'll find. And meanwhile you've had this experience where you've learned so much. It's just incredible. Had this experience where you've learned so much, it's just incredible. So I mentioned Happy, and she's a beautiful jewel, plush Stiefmoor hair bearer who's going to be, I think, one of the stars of this auction. She's got those big brown eyes and she dates from the mid-1920s and she came to worldwide attention in 1989 when London auction house Sotheby's sold Happy for £55,000. She was the first teddy bear to appear in the Guinness Book of World Records as the most expensive bear in the world Vintage bear enthusiasts. On the day of that auction, they were astonished to find that the guide price was £700 to £900, and she went for such a huge price tag. What made Happy so special?
Speaker 2:Well, I've known about Happy, you know, for since 1989, which is the same year I started at Christie's actually and you know I'd never actually seen her in the, I think. Actually she was at one teddy bear fair in Germany years ago and I saw her from a long distance away because Rosemary was holding her. But this is the first time I've actually, when I went to visit Ian was the first time I actually got to hold her and she has huge presence. She literally took my breath away. She is so beautiful, she's in such a lovely condition and she is so beautiful, she's in such a lovely condition and she is just so rare. I mean, I have sold a similar bear before in very poor condition, but this is just exceptional and she was made in very small numbers, with these big eyes, and we don't really know why she was made. And at the time, you know, the world record price in 1989 was Alfonso, which was 12,000. So to make for something to suddenly go for 55,000 was a huge leap and it sort of shocked a lot of people.
Speaker 2:I recently spoke to Bunny Campioni, who was the specialist and auctioneer at the time, and she's the lady who appeared in all the newspapers at the time holding the spare. And, yes, she, she put seven to nine hundred pounds on it. But when it actually got into the auction, the interest, she raised the estimate a bit, but she didn't take it up too high. But yes, I think the the answer was. I asked her why she thought it had sold so much and, um, there was just two people who were quite determined to have it and they both left with individual people, their agent, a buying bid, just buy it. But no one thought that for a second, two people would be doing that and that would be going, you know, getting so high. So, yes, it was amazing and it stood as a world record for such a long time well, you know, fairly long time but slowly the market caught up with it. So I mean, a few years later, we, you know christie's we sold a blue steif for 49 and a half thousand and then a few more years later we had teddy gale. So then that record was finally beaten.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, no, it is, she is exceptional and she has gone on to. You know, I think after they were a bit, I think paul and rose revolt were a bit shocked when they got the, the bill for it, but they were delighted with it and they decided because it became such a famous bear that they would use it for good. So they then started traveling around the world and raising money for charity with the bear. So you know, it's gone on to do amazing things and, uh, ian bought him a few years ago. Um, and with the rest of the vaults collection it's all in the, the museum and you know they're going on to a new home and who knows? I mean I've estimated to her at just 20 to 30 000, but who knows who's gonna might want to spend more on it these days. Hopefully there'll be someone out, someone out there and we might get a nice result.
Speaker 1:She's priceless in many ways, she's a beautiful bear. I think so. Yes, she definitely is. So she is not the only star in this auction, because bears not only make the news for their rarity, but some bears have been known to steal the show in television dramas. A bear called Aloysius starred with Jeremy Irons and Anthony Andrews in the ITV 1980s drama Brideshead Revisited. Aloysius is another bear in Ian Pout's collection and he's expected to achieve a price tag of between $20,000 and $ 30,000 at auction in December. Besides his star quality and the marvellous acting ability he had in Brideshead Revisited, what makes him so valuable?
Speaker 2:Well, strangely, you know, as a bear he's not a very valuable bear. I mean, he's a 1910 American teddy bear. When he starred in Brideshead Revisited he was in really quite nice condition. But he was owned by a character actor called Peter Ball who starred in films and stages and so forth and he was one of the first teddy bear collectors in the world. And I think when they decided obviously they wanted to cast a teddy bear as the role of Aloysius, I think they must have known Peter was a collector, so they turned to him to supply a bear and he did and this bear sort of really did steal the show, um, and was actually. I mean it was a huge success this sort of period drama. But you know, I think it really was important in the world of teddy bears. So you know there wasn't that many collectors of old teddy bears before 1981. There were some, but not many. But just seeing this really wonderful, beautiful, antique teddy bear in this period drama really inspired a lot of people to start collecting teddy bears and I know many of people who have said that was where their interests started from. So he has that to begin with.
Speaker 2:After he was in the drama he then went on the road with Peter Ball and used to go on chat shows, used to go all over the place and he has since.
Speaker 2:You know he was needed patching constantly because he's a 115 year old teddy bear so normally it's best you just sit them in the cabinet, not play with them or hand them too much. But he was well and truly handled so he sort of had to have running repairs as he went and I think he's just this sort of myth has built up around him. He's such a key figure in the bear world but I think it's that's what's going to really attract the attention as just a teddy bear in his condition. Perhaps he's only worth a few hundred pounds now, as you know. But for his provenance and his history and you know just the fact that you own the original aloysius and you know just the fact that you own the original Aloysius is such a big thing that hopefully you know we've estimated 20 to 30,000 and hopefully he'll make a good price. I think so he's, you know he's so important.
Speaker 1:He's a huge symbol in the teddy bear collecting world. And Peter Bull, I mean he was on the Late Late Show in the United States. Peter Bull, I mean, he was on the Late Late Show in the United States. He was on every major talk show internationally with his bears and he wrote books. And so I think Aloysius has an amazing Hollywood pedigree really, not just as a bear but also as an actor. He's been, he's really tread the boards all over the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, definitely.
Speaker 1:What is it like then? You're going to work with these amazing bears like aloe, vicious and happy. They're going to come into you at sas special auction services. What happens to the bears when they arrive? Do they have vip green room treatment?
Speaker 2:well, um, I think, because they're coming into us quite late, which is unusual. Normally we have the items in long before we publicize them or do anything with them, catalog them. But we're going to catalog them in situ. We're actually going there on monday to um, catalog them and photograph them all properly. Um, but they will. I think they'll come to, they'll be packed up nicely and then they'll probably be unpacked and actually there's a very good chance that they'll be unpacked and going straight onto a view. We've got a specific area for them which is all cabinets and they'll probably go on view straight away. And, yes, there will be a bit of red carpet treatment for them and I think certainly they'll look beautiful in view and that's when people can come in and we'll probably do a bit more press. Invite the press along as a preview. We're definitely going to have a teddy bears picnic on the sunday beforehand, so that'll be fun, you know it's. We're on view the sales on the 3rd of december and we'll view on the saturday and sunday as well, which just gives it a bit more chance for more people to come and see them and say hello or farewell to them. So, yeah, they'll definitely get the special treatment until the sale and you know we'll you know, just wait with anticipation to see what actually happens.
Speaker 2:It's a traditional room auction so people can come to it, but also it's going to be online, so it goes on to free auction platforms and will be shown to people all around the world and so anyone can bid on the pieces. Definitely, but we also you had mentioned it earlier I definitely wanted to make an auction where everyone can go away with something in a way. So it's going to be about. I think it's going to be between 250 300 lots. But ian's got a lot of little bits and pieces of ephemera uh, small, lesser value bears and postcards and all sorts of things, because he's a very talented artist ian is and creative, so his catalogs are beautiful. So there's lots of bits and pieces that we're going to add into the auction so that lots of people can come away with a souvenir of of such an amazing place and an amazing collector well, it's funny you said that about.
Speaker 1:you know you may not be able to come away with the high ticket item, but you may come away and I've had a companion with me since I think it was the last teddy bear auction at Christie's was Giles Branderit's collection, if I'm correct, that's right, yes, and what did I come away with but an Aloysius.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I was there as a journalist and I saw this bear and I'd seen Brideshead Revisited and £100, he was mine and he's still with me. He's been to Vienna, london, scotland, ireland. This guy really travels the world and I have no plans to part with him. He's a dear part of my collection, so you know you can be there you can't afford the big ticket item, but you can find something that will just steal a little bit of your heart, and that's what teddy bears for me anyway are all about yes, no, exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean that was the 2007, I think that was yeah. And giles, giles brandiff had this museum in stratford-upon-avon and he had a. He had a really quite a good cross-section of things and the I mean aloysius has been replicated a few times now. He was replicated by peter ball in the first place. That's what I've got, yeah and I think that's the one you've got um, the one that was yeah and then um, since ian's had him as well, he's done yes, they're lovely of him, so you can I think you can still buy a replica of our aloysius if you wanted to.
Speaker 2:I think they're still live on his website.
Speaker 1:It's a terrific story and it's lovely to add a bit of history to your collection that has, even if it's a reproduction bear or you know. It's all about creativity and the love of bears. So if somebody goes to this fantastic auction and they fall in love with a vintage or antique teddy bear and they don't know a lot about vintage or antique teddy bears, what should they be looking out in any auction or any place they're buying a bear?
Speaker 2:you collect in a way, but the first thing to do is always buy the best you possibly can afford. You know, and always you know I think that always proves right in the long run that you know the better pieces that you buy will always, you know, hold their own. But you've also got to go with something that you love and you know you've got to fall in love with that bear in the first place. And I mean I think there's always the other thing to say. I mean it's a bit different with this sale because it's got so many unique individual characters in that. I'm sure people will pay over the odds in some cases, you know, because they'll feel that they just have to have it. But generally at auction these days, you do know that there's another one coming along at some stage. You know. So perhaps not get I shouldn't really say this, being an auctioneer but perhaps don't get as carried away as as you used to, literally in the.
Speaker 2:When we were selling them at Christie's in the 90s there was no online auctions and eBay type things and very few places you could go to buy an antique teddy bear. So you know it was a hot subject then, so people were just buying them, no matter what really, and uh, and paying, you know, very strong prices. Fortunately, a lot of those prices have now caught up with themselves. But, yes, just buy what you like.
Speaker 2:Um, condition I think condition is quite important, but then some people really love a bear that looks old and battered like his age. So it's just it's knowing what you want out of things. But I think when you're first coming to collecting, I think you need to go, you learn about the subject first, so you know, go to auctions, get the reference books, really study it and know where your interests lie. And that's again that's why auctions are quite good, because you can actually go and look at all these things and learn what mohair is and and and what really good quality felt is like and how to tell whether a bear is in good condition. It's not just about looking at them, it's whether the material was strong and ask people. You know I'm here to help people, so you know I'm always happy to answer questions and walk people through the views and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:When it comes to those damaged bears, I'm just terrible. They're the ones I always really go for. So what do you think about when people restore a bear or repair a bear? Do you think it's a good idea, or should we just leave them looking a little bit sad?
Speaker 2:good idea, or should we just leave them looking a little bit sad? Well, there's certain things you kind of have to do because you can't leave dirt on the teddy bear, because that rots the, the mohair and you know any sort of holes, a perfect place for a moth to get into. So really you should do something. But I think you have to be so careful. It's a, it's not anyone. Can you just come along and become a teddy bear restore just because you can sew? You know you've got to keep that character.
Speaker 2:And some people I see it time and time again where they get an 100 year old teddy bear and they treat it as if it's a new teddy bear and they want it as clean as possible, they want it as stuffed as possible and put new pads on it and new eyes, and it just loses its life. Really, you've got to just you've just got to take each bear on its merit and just. I mean my favorite repairs are what I call mum repairs. When you know, when I get a bear in from someone's attic, often mum has just done some very crude stitching on its foot or covered it's a hole with a flowery material and I think that's really lovely.
Speaker 2:But you, just you do have to. I do think you have to do a certain amount. But then, saying that, there's also, you know, you can get a very old, perfect condition or very near perfect condition bear that just needs a light clean and a hole in its pad, which these days they can do an invisible repair on. That is a good way of doing it as well, because you end up with a really, you know, magnificent, completely undamaged bear. But it's just, it's again, it's a personal choice and it depends on how bad he is in the first place. If they're really bad, I think you have to go it that as being their character and leave it as alone as possible.
Speaker 1:They're aging gracefully, yes, so how can we find out more about this auction in December? Anyone can bid from any place in the world on your website. Website on the SAS website or on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have our own platform, which is on SAS specialauctionservicescom, which you don't pay any extra for. But we also host it on sellroomcom and live auctioneers and you have to pay an extra five percent for being on those. So we always try and get people onto our platform because it's cheaper, but that's always. You know, some people are more comfortable bidding on a separate platform and so, yes, I mean already on our website we've got some previews about the bears. You can sign up anytime and actually I always say to people go to our website, sign up for any auction that's coming up and just have a look at it and you know you might be attracted and put in a cheeky bid somewhere. But just so you're comfortable with bidding and how it all works, make sure your password and all that sort of thing is ready, so you don't want to be doing that on the day and then go. I can't do it and uh, and it all goes wrong.
Speaker 2:So I've got quite a big presence on Facebook and Instagram, so from now on I'm going to be really plugging this auction so there'll be a lot more features coming up on that so you can follow me on Facebook. I think I'm the only. I mean it's quite easy to find Daniel Agnew surrounded by teddy bears on Facebook, so you should be able to find me. There's lots of ways and, as I said, it's going to be a fun auction. So it's one of those sales which I say is like the sale to come to if you can. You know definitely it's got so many lovely things in it there's going to be a real buzz about it I'd love to come, but I know the temptation would be terrible.
Speaker 1:It's going to be the most fantastic auction and we're going to be sharing lots of details and some pictures on our website. So thank you so much for sharing so many wonderful stories about this auction and so many details about these very, very special bears and we look forward to. I imagine we can just tune in and follow along with the auction.
Speaker 2:Yes, if you don't want to spend any money, don't actually sign up to bid, you can just. There's a watch button so you can just watch it go and that's great fun as well. You know, just, I've got lots of people who perhaps don't get out as much as they used to and can't get to the fairs and or to the auctions, and they just love it. You know, we're now as I said, we're now we've got four teddy bear sales a year. We've actually got five this year, so we've still got. We've actually got a november sale of teddy bears and the december sale teddy bears, um. So there's lots of opportunities. So just watching is just such fun and you learn so much as well.
Speaker 2:See how how much things are selling for and there's always bargains. I mean it might not be in the Teddy Bears or Whitney sale, but generally there's always things that go quite cheaply and people go. Why didn't I bid on that? You know? So you know, maybe it is worth signing up just in case something sells for £10 or £20. And you know, we ship in-house from here as well. So we and you know, in, we ship in-house from here as well, so we send all over the world um shipments in-house. We've got a very good packing team so they take great care of your teddy bears and dolls.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's been a great place to come well, this is going to be an event to look forward to and I can't wait. There's going to be so many ways we can share in the joy of this auction, whether we see it online, and we're going to, of course, put lots of links on our various pages, and plenty of links so that they can find your Facebook and Instagram. Daniel Agnew, thank you so much for joining us and sharing the tales of these wonderful bears. I'm sure we wish them well on their new adventures, giving these teddy bears new tales to tell.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. It's been lovely talking to you.
Speaker 1:It's been a pleasure. Thank you, daniel. Thank you for joining us on the Doll Podcast and our new feature, collectible Conversations. If you'd like to find out more about Daniel Agnew and this fantastic auction, please go to our website, wwwdollpodcastcom. You can find the Doll Podcast on Instagram and Facebook. You can find Daniel Agnew on Facebook and on Instagram as TeddymanDan. The Doll Podcast is created by Niche Media Productions. Our music is by Kelty Conspiracy. Copyright Lisa Maxwell 2024,. All rights reserved. We look forward to welcoming you the next time. Thank you.